The Balance Theory - Balance for Type

Element/Type Balance Theory

So in Supermechs, you have 3 types: Heat, Energy and Physical. Now a lot of this game is considered “unbalanced” and biased towards a particular type, namely Energy. Now, this is the ratio for “balance”; say we have a total ratio of 30, the balance should be 10:10:10. Correct? Now, in my opinion, the ratios should be calculated like this: Physical = HP divided by damage per weapon, Energy = Energy divided by drain per weapon, Heat = heat capacity divided by heat given per weapon. (If you disagree, then please state what the ratio calculations should be by.)


Physical’s maximum HP can be 4622.
The average max damage of Physicals most common:

Spartan (387 max)
Mighty cannon (387)
Mercy (440)
Backbreaker (408)
Nightfall (366)
Night Eagle (336)
Reckless Beam (283)
Desert Fury (224)
War Hammer (398)
SeraphBlade (376)
Annihilation (341)
Purifier (213)
Sweetie (256)
Bloodweep (209)
Terror Cry (331)

Average of 330 damage. (Not including Repulsor, Armor Dissolver and Armor Annihilator)
If we take this and divide the Max HP with 330, we have 14 (rounded from 14.0000006) turns to get it to 0. (Not including Arena bonus)


Energy’s maximum energy capacity is 1702 (Yes, it’s possible). The average max energy drain of Energies most common weapons:

Grim Cobra (95)
Hysteria (123)
Valiant Sniper (193)
Spinefall (95)
Delerium (95)
Stormweaver (114)
Brightroar (103)
Ash Creator (180
Bulldog (67)
Bigdaddy (95)
EMP (393)
Mortalbullet (123)
Last Words (95)
Bunkershell (123)
Malice Beam (123)
Ultrabright (95)
Hot Flash (123)

Average of 139 energy drain (rounded from 138.705882). If we divide 1702 with 139, we get 13 turns to completely deplete the energy. (no regen)


Heat’s maximum heat Capacity is 1661. The average max heat generated by Heats most common weapons:

Supreme Cannon (71)
Vandal Rage (44)
Desolation (71)
Iron Frenzy (71)
Desert Snake (71)
Savagery (93)
Flaming Scope (212)
Terrorblade (86)
Heronmark (78)
Chaos Bringer (71)
Crimson Rapture (135)
Reckoning (50)
Magma Blast (93)
Sorrow (93)
Abomination (71)
Heat Bomb (393)
Corrupt Light (93)
Dawnblaze (71)
Flaminator (93)

Average heat of 103 (rounded from 103.157895). To over heat a player, you need the max turns of: (max heat capacity divided by 103) is 17 (rounded from 16.1262135)


Physicals have 14 turns, Energy has 13 turns, and Heat has 17 turns… This may or may not show the ratio of the types and shows that energy has one extra point and is in the lead. But not by much.

All things considered, there are other factors in this, like Regeneration and Cooldown (No healing for Physicals), but this is the Element Ratio Theory and can be used to see which type is currently in the lead with less turns taken.

Ratio = 13 (En) : 14 (Ph) : 17 (He)


My man, @Spaddel, has posted some of the different factors of this measuring technique that may influence the balance.

This is just a simple version of the equation and it seems to fit in with the current meta formed by the game: Energy is just slightly above Physicals with Heat quite behind (13:14:17).

If you like, you may also do your own calculations and post them here or just express what you think of this way of measuring the balance.

When I have abundant time, I may or may not attempt the other factors listed above… but it would be helpful if some of you can help.

Thanks to the members of BTB for previewing this theory!

Thanks all for reading, but if you did not, then algoods - WK :smile:

17 Likes

You should vector in the game regen and cooldown mechanism.
Regen is done automaticly at end of round, while heat cost 1 action point.
That places energy behind phis, since regen is automated and even the lowest regen 64(i think), builds up to another 832ish extra energy, that needs to be drained over the turns.An extra 6 turns to drain.
So it will kinda look like 14(phis),17(heat),18(energy).
Now if we add cooling, that also provides us with, lowest cooling is 43ish(i think). That transforms into another 731 heat to be heated(if only 1 cooldown is used/turn), that meens another 6 turn for heat.
The final ration now looks like this :slight_smile: :
Phis 14.
Energy 18.
Heat 23.
If we factor in the arena coins. And this is funny, since only heat and energy change.
Phis 11.
Energy 16( because regen also changes and also the cap).
Heat 21(because cap and cooldown also change).
So we can fairly conclude that Phis is in the Lead by 40% over energy, and almost 100% over heat.

4 Likes

Good insights mate. Thanks.
From guts, not detailed analyse, i feel that elec and phys are balanced atm. Heat being really aside…

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Well when you vector in the start range… things tends to shift.
But i feel that pound for pound(similar modules), phis realy shines above the others, specialy when premium modules and legs are used.

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I wont deny, my builds are performing very well in arena atm; the roundeds as well.
Surprisingly, i didnt see real OP elec line ups since claw showed up.
With my module set up and an elec weaponry, i think thatd be more efficient than my phys. Nagi’s elec is probably the best elec build atm, without even a plate. Give one claw to the ape or miron, then elec will scare me.

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They wont.
You miss out the fact that they need to pack atleast 5 energy modules, to actualy function, and they still need to have some heat… or… they are dead.
So their hp, will still be low… 2000ish hp… you melt them faster then butter.

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I know mate, but what about Counters? 2300hp or more elec troll builds. Thatd be the scary stuff… how come i didnt see any of these on claw? Did you?

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All i am geting is heat items.

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But if someone over heats me or drains me they dont win but if someone kills me (drains my hp) they win so ur calculations being right dont make too much sense for heat u can heat someone but if they have good cooling they can still beat u. Same for energy but there is energy free weapons.

For phy your calculations are correct. For heat u could simulate a matchup between a perfect phy mech vs a perfect heat mech and factor in shutdowns to see who would win

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Also u are calculating how all 3 types go against each other so u should have heat weapons again the average heat of a phy or ele mech. Or a phy against the average hp of a heat and elec mech

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That can go both ways:

If you take into account the cooldowns,heat is going to add extra turns for the other two.

If you take into account the fact that you won’t be able to use most of your weapons while drained,energy gives extra turns for the other two.

3 Likes

I find this research really cool but most of the weapons that you have listed aren’t frequently used because of their weakness. This is a really good starting point but if you are planning on continuing your research, I would recommend excluding some of the less frequently used weapons or assigning a point system. For example, if you come across 5 ash creators for every 2 ultrabrights you could assign a higher ratio, making it 5:2 and diving the ratings respectively. This would ensure a much more accurate and complete survey but overall I love the idea.

3 Likes

ye this feels like the first step to something

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Once I’m at home… I’ll try to do some more tests with additional factors

I was wondering for some time now… It’s possible to build

  • a physical mech that’s able to counter heat
  • a physical mech that’s able to counter energy
  • an energy mech that’s able to counter heat
  • a heat mech that’s able to counter energy

Is it possible to build a heat mech that counters physical builds? Even all-rounders?

Are you saying we should calculate how much damage heat and energy do to physical?

We can’t have a physical overheat someone or energy break them

for the heat mech zark, heat legs, 2-3 magma blasts, 2 deso’s or vandal rages. plates and heat mods could be pretty well rounded

While looking at El_Metre’s numbers (Phys 100% over heat), I was wondering if you can build a heat mech to counter (allround) physicals. If that was possible, El_Metre’s numbers aren’t plausible, since they imply that it isn’t possible.

2 Likes

Good Assessment
I agree with the overall conclusions, specifically that Physicals are the strongest, then Energies, and then Heats

The key issue is that Physicals do crazy damage to begin with, and significantly more than Energies or Heats

Now, Phys can mitigate their vulnerability by getting HP plates, as well as more cooling and regen modules, but plates being the easiest (4622 HP Max, that’s crazy!!)

Heats and Energies cannot mitigate their vunerabilities to Phys as easily (mainly damage). They have more Heat or Energy Cap requirements, and can’t have anywhere near the HP of Phys by just adding plates.

Their has to be a way for Heat or Energy to use their prime resource, to mitigate damage. That’s why Shields need to be re-introduced ASAP to restore balance.

As far as the imbalance between Energy and Heat, there are already hints that reducing the weight of some the heavier Heat weapons, will allow more modules to be used. That would be a very good start.

For energy, won’t the extra energy damage when drained be a valid point?