Crystal farming allowed


#1

Once upon a time Crystal farming wasn’t allowed. It was clearly stated on the BD Wiki page: http://wiki.battledawn.com/index.php?title=The_Rules

But in September 2017 it seemed to be time to update the rules. Obviously the old rules led to a lot of discussions, because some moral based situations were not applicable to any written rule. Victims associated some of these rules to these situations, and their counterpart was eloquent enough to convince the admin that the rule(s) mentioned were not applicable.
So new rules were drawn up, and the old Wiki rules were not applicable anymore. But they are still there (check the previous link)!!
In the new rules, you cannot find anything about Crystal farming. So since 2017 it is allowed to influence the final ranking. Here is an example about Crystal farming…

Era 93 of F2 was dominated by XD. They got help from Alfu. So XD led the era, and Alfu held the 2nd spot… Until something happened unexpectedly…

One of the subs of MCFC managed to conquer Excel (leader of Alfu). They killed his army, took his relic and conquered him. By conquering him, they took about 158 crystals from him. In the end his score was 130 points…
The score of Alfu dropped significantly, leading to a drop of the alliance rank from 2nd to 4th!!
So suddenly the alliances 7CAV and GC climbed to the 2nd and 3rd rank.

Trinoid, leader of XD assured Excel and anyone else on the huge Skype BD group, that Alfu would end 2nd. No matter what.
Just about 10 ticks before the end of the era, we all noticed that a lot of conquered colonies became available again. Clearly someone with a lot of conquers was conquered… but who???
Checking the ranking list it became clear that Trinoid lost all his Crystals… and Excel was the one who got them. Alfu climbed to the 2nd spot again and every one was happy…

But were they? Is everyone really happy about this behaviour? I’m not. Thats for sure. 7CAV and GC didn’t get the tokens they would have gotten if Trinoid didn’t give his Crystals to Excel.
In my opinion behaviour like this - especially when its allowed - ruins this game. Final ranking will be decided at the start of an era; not at the end.
Now, we all know the principle of “families”. Alliances help each other and in return a top 3 spot will be assured for the lower ranked alliance(s). I hate this tbh, but its part of the game since Pinto introduced The Elements on Mars (somewhere in 2011-2012). But I haven’t experienced it before that xtls were handed over to another ally (otherwise I would have written this topic way earlier).

I think I made clear how I think about behaviour like this. So I discussed it with Joe… a long and tedious job because Joe is EXTREMELY BUSY with real life stuff, and therefore hasn’t time to do his BD job properly. It took MORE THAN A MONTH before he gave his verdict. Had to sent him multiple reminders, and when he answered he showed that he didn’t take the time to start the investigation… (to compare: this was discussed with Alex today in less than 2 hours)
Hm… I realise this is off topic… An officlal complain about Joe will be filed soon. His lack of dedication is unacceptable.

Back to the topic…
Here are two suggestions:

  1. Reintroduce the Crystal farming rule to prevent something similar happens again.
  2. If thats not going to happen, document this in a FAQ-list.

“Evidence” removed on advice of Alfie.

You can check HOF yourself: era 93 F2.


#2

You don’t need to spam screenshots to show evidence, I’ll freely admit it, Excel got conquered like a complete retard so we even though we killed and conquered the guys who got him, we had to transfer him xtals at the end. That’s in the rules as you said, so the first 3/4 of this message trying to build a case against us as basically irrelevant. It’s legal, it happens everywhere, deal with it.
I would also say about the other teams not getting ‘their tokens’, both those you named did nothing at all, for the entire era, other than sit and build. That isn’t deserving of anything at all, no wonder 2nd and 3rd place blues. Furthermore we didn’t just give Alfu second because they were our sub, but because they actually contributed and helped, particularly Excel, hence why we made sure to boost him into the top 10.
As for the farming rule, I know it’s terrible. The only people who liked it being introduced are the cheating families who have 5 teams, or cheating players like PLO. It’s the same for the fact that planting spammers became legal. When the rule changes were announced they were met with almost universal outrage and negative responses, yet still somehow the management pressed ahead with them. Believe me, I was one of the most vocal opponents to them and have continued to be. But that’s the law of the game now, so it would be stupid to not follow it, instead trying to be ‘moral’ and abide by higher rules that hurt us because we aren’t willing to take advantage of what is allowed.
I hope this lengthy response is helpful and gives XD’s (and indeed many others’) point of view in this situation.


#3

Thnx for the advise about the “evidence”. Removed the links. I’ll come back on the other points later, because - as you understand - I don’t agree with you…


#4

Here’s where the issue comes in. How do you wish us to enforce these grey areas? Because when we do, here’s what happens:

  • Instead of just flat out saying, x team is helping y team (and everyone knows it and can prep for it), x team will "fake war’ y team at the end of the era.
  • Admin “knows” it’s a fake war to transfer crystals and such. But we cannot force our definition of war on others and say “no it’s a fake war”.
  • If admin interferes, angry mobs come saying admin’s are overbearing and exerting their own definition of the rules onto others.
  • If admin backs off, the opposite side comes in and says admin’s are spineless and allow cheating.

End story, it happens regardless. However, 1 puts the issue on admin shoulders when we literally can’t do anything about it. It’s too “grey”. The players have too much power to just say, “we warred, x player lost his crystals and army” and then come back in a few hours and say “we decided on a ceasefire”. This happens in a REGULAR era for wars. Heck, E1 last era, I did this multiple times (start war, then called for ceasefire with the team we were warring). An admin shouldn’t be the one to determine whether or not teams are forced to keep warring (and we couldn’t enforce it even if we wanted as the teams literally just have to stop attacking each other).

As i’ve always been an advocate of; command the era if you want to be the one to determine what’s allowed. History is written by the victor. If you didn’t like that teams redistributed crystals to change the results end of era, then you should have been the one to stop it by killing them. Otherwise, you have no right to say “I deserved 3rd”. If you did, then you would have gotten it, whatever it took. Cause that is how you ‘deserve’ it. And before you go on arguing with me, due note, I recently just lost rank 1 on E1 for the exact same circumstance. Rank 1 team was literally handed 600 crystals to beat my team. End story though, I could have prevented, but I chose not to and it came back to bite me.

Same with spammers. If you don’t want spammers to be able to wreck you, then prep for them in advance. Make a strong network in your territory. Keep good defenses around your network to stop spammers (or at least slow them down to get what you need to actually defend). What I see happen in most eras are folks with 1 or 2 absolutely essential gates that connect their armies on the frontlines to their hive territory and when it gets jammed and spammed, complain. Didn’t even have an anti spam on it, let alone a few squads to protect their essential OP. Because they needed “everything on offense”.


#5

There is no grey area. A rule is a rule. If you think it s#cks, learn to live with it. For me its black and white. If you see something I described, just tell the admin. He will verify the story and take appropriate action. If you’re wrong, he will tell you, with the reason why? Looking at the “old” rule, there is no room for discussions. Its crystal clear.
In the hypothetical case that the xtl farming rule was still applicable: Excel lost his army and xtls. Totally his fault he didn’t have a shield. Not his fault that network performence s#cked. He should have been compensated for that.
Making a statement doesn’t mean you have all the cards to do something about it.
So, no fake wars to end 2nd legit. You made a crucial mistake, which caused the rank of your ally to drop to 4th spot. Too bad. Next time Excel will have his shield. If it annoys you that the 3rd and 4th spot allies climb 1 spot, kill them. Excel helped XD. XD should help Alfu. These allies had the power. Most ppl I know play this game mainly for the wars. 7CAV and GC appeared to be inactive. Whats easier than killing an inactive ally.

You say: “As i’ve always been an advocate of; command the era if you want to be the one to determine what’s allowed.”
I like to rephrase this: Command the era if you don’t want to be dependend on the generosity of others. To be the one to determine what’s allowed doesn’t make sense, because you don’t make the rules. The rules are dictated by the owners of the game, and the admins make sure no one violate them.
Its easy to make a deal with your buds in the ally that won like this. Next time its your turn to win, and get help from your buds from the other team.

Finally… this isn’t about me. I wasn’t in 7CAV or GC. My ally was in no position for a top 3 spot AT ALL.


#6

“We had to transfer him xtls at the end” means his “complete retard” fault didn’t have any consequences. Its not written in any rule that XD “had to” give Excel xtls, so the first 3/4 of my mail was totally relevent.
Acting like this kills this game. Knowing upfront that major errors will be compensated by the buds in the other ally, no matter what, takes away the energy to play and kill the #2, because its pointless.
It happened era 93, and it probably happens this era (94).
So yes, morality is important to me. I avoid cheaters like the plague. For me they’re all time enemies. When I put myself in the position of Excel, I would have banged my head to a wall for not having a shield, but accepted the consequences. Won’t happen again!! But I don’t play for awards or rewards. Just for fun, and when I’m in a war, this game is really quality time for me. So tokens are not important to me. If I need tokens and I don’t have blues, I’ll buy them.
But I understand that for most players blue tokens ARE important, and therefore act like the example I gave. To make sure Alfu got the reward they deserved. And lets be clear on this: ALFU DESERVED 2ND SPOT when you look at their activity compared to 7CAV and GC. But sometimes this game is a b#tch, and 1 “retard” mistake can ruin your work irreversibly.
And most of us aren’t kids anymore. We learned to accept the consequences of our actions and don’t whine about it (although I don’t think Excel whined about his fault; I believe Trinoid promised Excel his xtls, and not because Excel asked them). I would have declined the offer politely.
Would be good if we apply some lessons we learned in life, here in this game. And NO, this is not a lesson in morality…


#7

Neferete from NANC with dave and dogsbreath?

On topic, the reason the ruleset was made was because of the large grey area that existed for many years. Different admins would enforce different rules somtimes differently across eras. There complaints daily/weekly because of how opinion based the game was at the time

The change was needed and a decent majority of the community agreed on it and helped craft the rules. Having the game be run by players outside of relic & garrison drops is how it shoud be. If players don’t want certain alliances ending 1st & 2nd and transferring their crystals, then simple answer lies in the game. Kill them. Hold the crystals yourself so you can decide how an era ends.

My 2 cents


#8

@trajic1 someone is looking for us.


#9

What I would say to this is that if you didn’t want us to transfer xtals to our allies, you should have killed us and our allies.
We almost lost due to being overwhelmed earlier in the era. I died, which doesn’t happen very often. We were warring MCFC, Casper’s team, and some other team in the east, plus some subs and spammers aligned with these teams (including your team).
I lost my army, and then MCFC counter intuitively allowed us to make peace with them, we killed multiple armies of the team in the top right, Casper’s team went totally inactive and stopped pushing, and then once we had boosted back a bit and maintained our activity Casper quit saying his team was useless. All this when we were literally on the brink of defeat. That allowed us to divide and conquer, so by the time that your team attacked and killed/conquered Excel later in the era we had already almost killed everybody, you guys were just delaying it. So you, and other teams gave us a path to win, and thus ensured we had the dominance to be able to do what we did with xtals at the end. Of course we never intended to keep the peace with MCFC, but we needed a temporary ceasefire to focus on other teams.
If you didn’t want us to transfer xtals and save our idiot sub member, then you should have taken those crystals from us by conquering us.


#10

No, I’m not from NANC with Dave and dogsbreath. Been away a couple of years.
On topic, I really don’t get it. Where is the grey area in this rule:
“Passing crystals to somebody for the purpose of inflating their score is not permitted, and at the end of an era, it is not permitted even if you are quitting.”

I think this rule was removed because of the pressure of players in the situation I described, or similar situations. Where players thought it wasn’t fair that guys who worked hard died in the end and lost everything. Especially because the activity of the person involved was one of the most active guy in the era.
I’ve experienced a similar situation, but it involved a guy in my ally. Gave him my 2 relics and he ended in the top 10 after all. It didn’t affect my rank, but even if it did, I would have done it because idc for rank.

And you all are right. If I don’t like it that allies transfer xtls I should have killed them. Both :smiley:
Even if I’m just an innocent bystander, just watching the whole era what happened. But it happened a few ticks before the end of the era (tick 1307), so there was no time.

For me it was a surprise that this rule was not applicable anymore. It really hit me, because it clearly violated a rule that still can be found on Wiki. I informed Joe about it but he didn’t respond (what’s new…). In the end a substitute replied something about the grey area. Told him this wasn’t a gey area at all, but he didn’t read my mail.

So to avoid discussions like this in the future, I decided to document this in a topic, so future vets returning to this game doesn’t have to be suprised like I was. I’m still not convinced that deleting this rule was the best thing to do, but hey, its like management of the company you work for takes a nasty decision. Learn to live with it, or leave.

And for the record: I wasn’t involved.


#11

I had evidence that I wasn’t able to move at all or do anything in the client for the last 30 seconds that tick. Was attempting to move and then just completely lagged out of the server. Conquering me wasnt the problem in this case. I had xtals but no conqs to begin with. If hadn’t lost my army due to physically not being able to move my army, I would have just killed those responsible myself and took back my xtals.

I had recently relocated and a shield would not have allowed me the time to relocate anyway. I was going to lose my xtals one way or the other. And like I said before, if I hadn’t lost my army in a bs way I would have just helped kill the team responsible and gotten the xtals back.

Also the consequences were me not being able to help fight with my army, and then us having to coordinate the transfer of xtals. XD felt they should give me a ribbon and Alfu 2nd because we largely contributed to their victory when they nearly lost.

lesson learned: the lag kills players for no reason with RNG, if you wanted to stop it then you should have killed all of us, we could have “warred” XD anyway and gotten me xtals anyway, then just made a ceasefire afterwards, and it would have been completely within the old rules.


#12

I had recently relocated and a shield would not have allowed me the time to relocate anyway.

A shield gives your buds the opportunity to help you. But you guys were inactive the moment you were attacked. Maybe not you, but your buds certainly. But a 12 tick delay on the attack on your colony would have been enough time to mobilize them. Your army was on a gate, so due to the server problems you couldn’t help it that you lost your army (well, taking less risk, and not wait tilln the last moment, but probably I would have done the same and died too). But the following attack on your colony a few ticks later could have been delayed. But as you said, you didn’t have a shield. Maybe because you didn’t build the structure…
Anyway, water under the bridge…

I understand from Alex that the game was sold 2 weeks ago, and that the Wiki page wasn’t removed for this reason. But soon we’ll get a totally new Wiki page, so I think it will be good to add a FAQ where the xtl farming will be explained (that is allowed nowadays). There are a lot of guys from the past who only play a few era’s a year, and leave for a year or two, or even more. I’m sure a lot of them are not aware of the changed rules (e.g. xtl farming), and will probably do the same as I did: search the forum to check if this was a topic for discussion. Now they can find it, and thats enough for me.


#13

Yep, we are working to re-vamp the wiki page and bd player guides to help older and new players alike :slight_smile:


#14

From what you mentioned earlier, you had literally nothing to do with this, so you can stop speculating for no reason. My team was basically afk most of the era. Much of the fighting was done by myself to help XD, and I was fed by my teammates for a lot of it. Putting up a shield would have done nothing. All the network was being taken. I wouldn’t want to waste 250E because I thought that I would get the res back to build my army but the admins didnt give me the res even though I had pretty solid proof (imo).

I was being called early in the morning (by XD, not my own team) that my army was going to die. I logged in at the last minute. I was trying to move my army when I couldnt do anything in game. The refresh button wasnt clicking, so i made a new tab, opened bd, tried to log into the world, all the bars wouldnt load up, i took a screenshot of this, messaged my friend on skype well before the tick passed, sent him the screenshot, kept waiting for the bars to load up and then the tick passed. Are you done speculating for no reason and sounding like an idiot? Ok? Ok.


#15

Hm… so as a watcher I’m not allowed to give my opinion… I only try to understand the situation. It appeared to me that you could have done the things I would have done myself in a similar situation. But now you explained it, for which I like to thank you, and I stop speculating. And if you think I’m an idiot, thats ok. Its been years ago that remarks like this p!ssed me off…


#16

If you wanted to understand the situation you could ask instead of just arbitrarily hypothesizing motives, actions, and details of the senario.


#17

It wasn’t my intention in the first place to ask for the background why you died. Thats completely off topic. You’re the one who gave an explanation, which didn’t make sense in the beginning because you did’t tell what you told 2 hours ago.

But Excel… let it go… You sounds salty, and I guess thats not the person you normally are…


#18

Cough… Cough…


#19

Don’t know him… maybe he is…:thinking:


#20

if you are responding to me I will respond back until the topic of convo is completely exhumed of meaning, and its only starting to get to that point. after my first post you commented again about the details surrounding the death of my army, so i continued to provide info since you seemed to want to dig deeper. sorry if you are uncomfortable being corrected when you continued to hypothesize about the incident.

:smiling_face_with_three_hearts: